I'm looking for feedback on my new mod management, and doubling prevention and repair tool, Wrye Mash. (Currently at version 0.30 and looking quite stable! :celebrate: If you've been waiting for it to come out of Beta, now is the time to try it!)

Here's a screenshot showing the Saves tab. Checkbox colors indicate the "health" of file's masters (blue is best, red is worst). Note that you can manage files (Delete, Duplicate, Hide), edit file details (File Name, Save Name) and edit the masters list. While editing a files master list, you can delete masters, change master names, and sync to the current set of load files (including new mods). You can also (partially) repair files already suffering from damaged references. Similar commands are available for mod files.

See the readme for more screenshots and additional information on how to use Wrye Mash to manage your mods, load list, and load order.

Installation: Get Wrye Mash at Wrye Morrowind. Note that Mash is built on Python and wxPython, which you'll need to download and install first. See Mash's installation instructions for more info and download links.

Edited to match the current version (v0.30).

This post has been edited by Wrye: Jan 24 2005, 07:03 PM

This needs more attention than it is getting methinks. *stirs*

Yes I agree this sounds like a great idea. :goodjob:

This sounds... pretty frelling amazing actually :blink:

Doubling is a problem that bugs all of us at one time or another ~ even those of us who are extremely careful can get this problem. A simple, one-stop solution would be great.

I'm in the proces of d/ling it now and I'll scream about anything that strikes me

Yup. Haven't tried it yet, since I don't have Python, but good job!

Feedback is good. I was starting to wonder...

Note that this will not fix all doubling problems. And some of the doubling fixing that it does is still Beta (changing load dependencies). Doubling is a fairly thorny problem, and you've got to fix two or things to stop it entirely.

New Release: 0.21 As before, you can download it from Wrye Morrowind

File Management New Delete, Hide and Snapshot commands for mods and files. Delete deletes, of course! Hide moves the selected files to a subdirectory. This is great for keeping those rarely/never used mods from cluttering up your Data Files window.

Snapshot creates a snapshot of the selected mod. The next snapshot number is generated automatically based upon your existing shapshots. (E.g. if your mod is named "Mod X.esp" and your last snapshot is "Mod X v1.2.011.esp", then the command will generate "Mod X v1.2.012.esp" as the suggested snapshot name.) If you're an active modder, this should be tremendously useful.

Morrowind Directory During the first startup, if Mash can't find your Morrowind Directory, it will ask you to locate it, and will remember the new location for all future loads.

Master Filename Editing You can now rename Masters in the master list. Warning: Masters list editing is still undertested! I'd strongly suggest that you test your mods after changing them here. And don't forget about the "Revert to Backup" feature. (Which is now in a submenu of the item context menu.)

Misc. Fixes A few tweaks and corrections here and there.

Documentation Sorry nothing new there... Real Soon Now.

I'm going to bump this...

Wait, so this tool can fix doubling problems that have already occured?

Gonna give it a try even if I never got doubling (As soon as I add a new mod i rather prefer to start a new game, lol).
Hope it works as intended, cause if so it will be 1 of the most used tools ever!

Not yet. If you've experienced doubling, but saved over the game file, then Wrye Mash will not help. Yet.

I believe that I know how to build a partial repair function and will add that to a later version. However, this repair function will be only partial -- once you save after you see doubling, the doubles become detached from the original esp file and cannot easily be detected. But I think that the repair function would at least fix all bogus deleting (i.e., doors and windows disappearing).


Great! I think that you'll find the mod management tools alone to be very useful.

Sounds very cool. I'll wait until you're able to test it more to try it, but I'll bookmark this thread for future updates.

Good job, Always love the utils.

New release: Version 0.22 Get it at Wrye Morrowind.

The major enhancement in this version is improvements in masters list editing. You can now sync to the current load set, and you can use a popup menu on items to select which esp/esm to replace a given file with. (You use this to deal with esm/ps that have been renamed. (Note: Do not use it add a new esp while replacing an old one!)

Note that for save files, esps can be replaced with esms and vice versa. Also, if you've merged several esps, then each of the old esps names can be replaced with the same name. (Note: Don't go merge happy: merging itself also causes doubling -- unless the merged files don't place any references.)

Also, for convenience (especially while testing), there are now Duplicate and Unhide context menu commands.

Note that the masters list editing should still be considered beta -- but with the Duplicate and Revert commands, you should be safe.

New:
- Enhance masters editing:
- "Edit" command on dialog menu.
- "Sync to Load List" will sync masters to current load list.
- "Change to..." command in (new) masters list item context menu.
- ESMs are now given a different background color in lists.
- Duplicate command (on File submenu of list item popup)
- Unhide command. (column head popup menu)

Fixes:
- Some mod operations (delete, hide) work on multiple selections.
- Misc. fixes to master list editing. Seems to be okay now.

Still no docs though...

I agree, maybe it should of bin called "skimpy bikini anti doubling tool" sorry...(not that I have anything against skimpy bikini's) anyway nice job

This certainly looks promising. God, how many games have I started over because of douling problems that I couldn't fix...

I'm a bit of a tech idiot, and this looks somewhat complicated, so I'll wait for it to come out of beta before I give it a go, but I'll be looking forward to it, for sure.

Okay, but I'm not playing that much any more and not even modding much, so if you're waiting for me to finish beta testing, you may be in for a long wait!

Heh, well I've downloaded it already ;-) I'll just give others some time to figure it out, and hopefully learn from them.

New Release: 0.23 As before, you can download it from Wrye Morrowind

Documentation No more guess and click. I now explain that "File: Delete" deletes files! :) And the less obvious stuff, like how to use master list editing, how it affects doubling, and what all those checkbox colors mean. And a little bit about how the code is laid out, etc.

Note: Docs are also available online: Wrye Mash Docs.

Misc. Fixes Fixed a missing directory related crash.

Just checked your site. You've made some really good looking mods there :nod: I like the dialog of the Mystica thingie---good writing. And Ericka Strongarm makes me laugh, and those folk clothes look really good.

Back on topic: I admit I don't fully understand what Wyre Mash does. Does it make the game run more smoothly? I have been plagued with games that get slower and buggier as I progress, and by the time my character is level 20 I can't stand to play anymore. Will Wyre Mash prevent this from happening?

Anyway, I'll check it out.

Yeah, Erika's got a bit of a mouth on her... Just ask her about Drakron's Bretona Maid outfits!

What Wrye Mash Does. Basically two things...

Manage Mod and Save Files Kind of like Morrowind Launcher x 100. Most of that should be pretty obvious, though the docs explain a little more.

Prevent/Fix Doubling Errors This is what masters editing is aimed at. Basically, you get these errors if you rename mod files, add new mod files that load before your existing modfiles or edit an existing mod file.

Will it help you? Are you loose about adding and removing mods to existing games? Do you see doubled NPCs, doors, etc.? Do you see objects disappearing and then reappearing for no apparent reason? Then it you probably have doubling problems.

Mash can likely help with that. Current features will help prevent it and allow you to safely add and remove mods. A future (days to a week from now, depending on how much time I have) feature, will partially repair files that already have doubling/deleting errors in them. Later, I may add a feature to help deal with mod version changes. (Check the Doubling section of the doc for more information.)

Slowing No, I can't help with that right now. Of course, this is partially a machine dependent problem, but it's also a problem related to the size of the save file. There have been posts before on how to deal with this (by Farren, I think) (if you have Enchanted Editor, check the Examples and Info section of the docs). The solution used there is pretty radical (it removes a lot of stuff), but could be added to Wrye Mash quite easily.

Yes, save file size seems to be the one most important factor in determining the fps I get. However, slowdown can also occur when an entire cell is doubled, which should be helped by this. This tool really has so much potential.

Yeah my game files get over 5 megs by the time things are getting interesting. And at that size my puter can't run them anymore. I tried cleaning them with the Enchanted Editor, but that messes up quest mods big time.

But since I also get a lot of doubling--mainly because I cannot resist shuffling my mods around--this tool will come in handy. Thanx a lot. :goodjob:

Like I said, Farren's approach is a little radical. But if you're being programmatic, you can be a lot more precise -- like rather than deleting the references for all objects, only delete the references for standard (i.e., non-unique) items. That alone would substantially reduce the size of the game save -- and not break any quests. (BTW if someone is willing to put together a list of such safte to forget items, I could use that. It should only include objects that can be changed in game and are worth deleting. I.e., no activators, no statics...)

Doubling Repair I've been looking at this today, and my approach looks fine so far. There's no major complexities -- but I'm a little sleep deprived and need to take care of some RL stuff. So, it will still be 1-5 days before this gets completed.

Clarification I'm calling this doubling repair, but that's not really right. Usually when doubling happens, the doubled item get's it's modIndex set to 0 -- which means that it's detached from the original. I won't be fixing this. (Largely because it's not easily distinguised from when this happens normally and correctly -- e.g., you pick an item up and drop it again.)

However These sort of errors can prevented (not repaired) by using Wrye Mash as it is right now. After altering your load list, just use the Masters Editing on the game file to make it "blue" before playing the game -- that will prevent doubling from happening in the first place.

What repair will do is 1) correctly match mismatched items -- which can be more important because these are likely to cause CTDs and generally weird behavior. 2) Remove orphan deletes. (Deletes with ModIndex = 0.) Orphan Deletes seem to be responsible for items that appear and disappear for no apparent reason.

New release sometime tomorrow... Looks like I've got ref-mismatching repair working! :rock:

I still need to do some testing and throw in a few tweaks, but it looks pretty cool! I've even got cute little progress dialogs! (Which I've also retrofitted into the save (which tended to hang for a second or so after editing masters.)

My expectation: this will kill all doubling related CTDs! (Under the theory that you get such CTDs mostly from mismatched references.) Okay, I could be wrong, but...

Too tired to finish testing and tweaking right now, :dead: but I'll get it out either in the morning in or the evening. (I'll be out midday.)

Here's a sample of what error log will look like once I get the little tweak added in. (This is from dump from shell version of utility.)


Decoding
- Header is cell name or exterior cell location.
- First bad ref is a wr_testRocks_s. Save game thought they were modindex=20, objectindex=6. But it's been rematched to modindex=11.
- Second bad ref (under -11,11 i.e., gnisis). Save game thought that modindex was 16, but it was actually something else. Only savegame already had a ref for the correct version, so this ref is a double and is discarded.
- Notice that Mash does matching whether the id has an id number appended or not (last rematched).
- BAD DELETE is a delete that's become detached from it's original reference and assigned to modindex=0. Which shouldn't happen, so it's been discarded. This is the sort of thing that's responsible for doors and people that keep appearing and disappearing. (I think)

Sounds very helpful, will try. Haven`t had TOO many doubling problems, but there`s one in particular that`s really bugging me, tried to search the forums for a solution but maybe I`m not phrasing it right. I`m not as computer literate as I`d like to be.The problem I`ve been having is missing dialogue options, some of the quest mods I cant even start because the key NPC only has the generic Morrowind NPC responses and conversation topics= dead end .Suspect conflicts?Had to junk the Sea of Destiny mod because key NPCs either didn`t appear or had no conversation topic to advance the plot. Same thing with A Drow Story mod. Really got me puzzled, tried using only one mod at a time but no go. Suspect all this has a similar root cause.

Now you've really got my curiousity up, I've edited files before and definetely got nasty dubbling. So just how may I ask does this help will that exactly, is it load order that causes it or something else(unsure?) that you fix. Sounds like this is becoming a great tool I think. :)

New Release: 0.24! As promised, this version add a Repair Refs function (accessible from the context menu of save files). Big feature, itty bitty interface! After you run the repair, you'll get a listing of the repairs that were made.

As before, you have Duplicate, Snapshot and Backup functions to return your file to a previous state, if necessary.

Download it from Wrye Morrowind.


If you mod, play then edit your mod, you're likely to get doubling error for two reasons: ordering (modIndex) and internal reference number (objectIndex). Right now, Wrye Mash fixes the first, but not the second. A future version may deal with the second problem (I've got a probable solution in mind, I'll just have to find the time to code it and work out the interface problems.)

That's the short answer. For the medium length answer, see the Wrye Mash doc ("Doubling" about halfway through). For the really long answer, see "Wrye Notes: Doubling Explained" at Wrye Morrowind.


This is almost certainly a dialog ordering/conflict problem, which Mash does not address. You might try using TESPCD or TESTools to resolve it. The other possibility is the Mod author damaged the dialog (possible for beta releases from new modders). Obviously is not the case with Sea of Destiny. I'm not familiar with Drow Story though. Note that if you have other mods loaded, it might be a conflict with one of them.

Well, I said that it was Beta... After reordering/repair I seem to be getting a runtime error related to creatures from leveled creatures lists (error: death animation cannot be found). I'll skip the technical points here, but the problem seems to be related to particulars of how spawned creatues are represented in the save file. :glare:

I've got some ideas about how to fix this, but unfortunately, I've run out of time to work on this project. So, I probably won't be able to work on it anytime soon.

In the meantime, you might get around this problem by going to an interior cell (w/o spawn points) and waiting 72 hours (which clears a lot of creature related stuff). But I wouldn't bet on it.

Barring that, the header editing and ref repair functions of Wrye Mash should be considered unsafe. File management functions are still fine though, and the tool still serves a platform for further mod munging tools.

:celebration: New Releases 0.26 This took a lot of :banghead:, but I finally fixed the death animation problem! Testing with this new release, things look very good -- no bugs.

To give an example, I took an existing save game with about 50 mods (many of which had had file date and size changes, and even some name changes), and then added in the complete LGNPC set (which I dated to load before two thirds of the existing mods.) Result: No problem!

Note: Be sure to user "Repair Refs" after editing the Masters List though -- see the read me.

Note: This tool is not necessarily newbie safe. It's fairly simple to use, but you still have to think a little, and you may have to use the "Revert to Backup" feature. (I usually use "Duplicate" to duplicate a save game, and then work on the Duplicate.)

As before, you can find it at: Wrye Morrowind

This post has been edited by Wrye: Jan 20 2005, 05:12 PM

There are a couple of problems which will affect a few people...

If you have a data file (esm, esp or ess) with a corrupted or missing TES3 header record, then Mash will crash on startup. The (temporary) solution to this is to find the culprit file and either change it's extension (e.g., ".esp" to ".esp.not") or move it somewhere else. If it's an esp or esm, just fire up TESCS -- that will tell you the culprit file. If it's an ess, then the simplest thing is to do a binary search of your ess files. E.g. temporarily move the files somewhere else, and see if Mash starts. Then move half back and see if the program starts again. Iterate until you find the problem file.

Alternatively, you might go to line 777 in mosh.py and remove the '#' (comment character) from in front of "#print self.name". If you then follow the debug procedure described in the readme, the last file that prints before you get the debug trace dump will be the problem file.

Other problem: Apparently, Some locales are not well defined in python. If this is the case, then you'll get a crash on startup, and (if you do the debugging procedure described in the readme, you'll see something like this:

If this is the case, then you can temporarily fix the problem by changing line 140 of masher.py, from this:
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,'')

To this:
locale.setlocale(locale.LC_ALL,'English_United States.1252')

I'll try to fix these problems more generally in the future, but it may be a couple of days. Again, this should only affect a relatively small number of users and certainly won't cause any damage.

BTW, thanks to Grizz for the bug reports! If anyone else has any problems, please let me know...

The bad header problem will be fixed in the next release.

The locale problem is actually a date problem -- it occurs for files that are "modified" sufficiently far into the future. (Some esps use this technique to make sure that they load last.) By sufficiently far, I probably mean greater than 2038 (which is the next rollover date by some date management standards, if I remember correctly). If you have the mod acsSunsiShirtBB.esp, for instance that will likely cause a problem since it is dated to around 2054.

I'm working on a fix, but in the meantime, you can either move the problem files elsewhere or somehow change their date to something less extreme.

New Release 0.27: Major Bugfix Question: So what's the difference between 'f' and 'i'? Answer: The difference between reading the file version number in as a float... and writing it out as an integer! Bugger... :banghead: So, that's fixed now. And fixing it resolved the problem with the death animations (allowing me to drop my earlier "blow all the current animations away" "fix".) It also fixed the 'reclothing' of the PC which happened after loading a modified file. :brokencomputer:

If you were using one of my previous version (e.g., 0.26,) see the release notes -- I'm suggesting that for safety, you revert any changes and redo them.

I've also fixed the bad header and post-2037 modification date problems described above. Thanks again to the folks reporting bugs... Beryllium, Grizz and gingercakes. :foodndrink:

As before, you can get it at Wrye Morrowind.

Wow, your site has a lot of useful crap on it. Just got Wrye Mash and I'm browsing through the other files now. Thanks!

Warning to INI File Mungers If you manually munge your ini file for some reason, Mash may get stuck in a loop. (BAD) One user did this to define different game files sets and then switch between them. I'll fix this in the next release.

It's worth noting that what he was trying to do -- quickly switch between sets of loaded games -- is actually done by Mash. Just use the Loadsets feature (top of the column context menu in the Mods tab). This allows you to define a large number of loadsets and quickly switch between them.

I know you are advertising this program for doubling, but I used it for updating the file master file dependencies. A task that I have been unable to achieve with any other program without messing something else up at the same time. Now my dependencies of my older esp’s are up to date with the original date and time intact and have a game that starts without the dreaded error message, One or more pluggins could not find the correct versions of the master files they depend on etc etc etc.

Thanks for the program! :foodndrink:

wow the sweet convenience of this is right on time, i just got a doubling problem in one of my houses...this will hopefully fix it

thanks alot

Eeek- it crashes on me. I tried the whole "chdir to the directory" etc, but it says something like I used the wrong type of parameters or something. chdir "mydir" works fine, but chdir "Program Files\Bethesda Softworks" does not.

Is this the location of your Mopy folder?

C:\Program Files\Bethesda Softworks\Morrowind\Mopy

You bet. CD'ing just to Program Files doesn't seem to work.

Sounds like your problem is just with the "chdir" command. If that's the case, then try this...
> c:
> chdir \program files\bethesda softworks\morrowind\mopy

If your mopy directory is somewhere else -- another drive or another directory -- then you need to adapt accordingly, of course.

I get "Too many parameters - files\bethesda", despite the fact that "help chdir" says it doesn't take spaces as delimeters.

Edit: And if I surround it with quotes, I get Parameter format not correct - "Program

Edit: If I truncate it, I can get into Program Files, but beyond that it just says "invalid directory".

This post has been edited by BungaDunga: Jan 22 2005, 06:03 PM

Wait, I've figured it out. I downloaded a chdir replacement that take full filenames, so I've finally been able to navigate to the Mopy directory. Now time to get it to debug!

Edit: Ok, it spewed a bunch of errors. Here ya go:



This post has been edited by BungaDunga: Jan 22 2005, 06:21 PM

Okay, that looks like an esp file format problem -- i.e., one of your modfiles is corrupted. Right now, I catch/handle some corruption, but not this one apparently. I'll put in an extra check for it...

I'll get a new release out in 20 minutes or so. (Gotta fix something else too.)

BTW, could you edit that error message down? It's cluttering the topic a little bit. Also, you might want to just PM me with detailed error messages like this.

BTW, here's how you can selectively copy stuff from the command window...
1. Right click on the window title for the command prompt window. That will give you a context menu. Select "Properties" at the bottom of the menu.
2. In the resulting dialog, select the options tab and then check the "QuickEdit Mode" checkbox, then click Ok. Doing this allows you to copy stuff out of the command prompt window.
3. Do the command again, then use click and drag to select the command you entered and the resulting text. Then hit the "Enter" key. This will copy the text to the clipboard. (Not exactly standard, but... :shrug:)

Out typed by Wrye.

This post has been edited by Grizz: Jan 22 2005, 06:40 PM

I have a lot of mods made with unorthodox programs- MWE mods, MWSE mods, etc. I would bet one of them is causing it, but its really impossible to tell. Thanks for working on this, I am sure I will find it very useful once I get it running properly ^_^

Very happy to see this will handle updating esp header dependencies for esms. I think that is great in and of it's self. I too have been looking for an error free editing program for those myself. :) :clap:

New Release 0.28 Get it at Wrye Morrowind.

Mash was failing on manually unselecting files. (This is a recent "break something while fixing something" bug.) This is fixed now.

More File Corruption Handling: Added a new handler for another type of file corruption, but it seems to move pretty slowly (if the file is corrupted). Better than nothing, I guess.

I've run into a little problem with this program (both 0.27 and 0.28) which hopefully my friendly Internet neighborhood Wrye Mash debugger person will be able to help me with :)

I wanted to go back to an old save (basically one just before I cleaned out a save using Enchanted Editor's delete cells and NPCs methodology). What I did was:
(1) Selected mods to use in the mods tab.
(2) Switch to Saves tab and choose Load Masters (right click context menu for save game), when I get the following error message:

Message box title is "wxPython: stdout/stderr". Note that GUARDS_Tribunal.esm is not in the load list I created in (1) and is not in Data Files directory.
(3) OK, thinks me I'll try something else...
(4) I select the savegame and in the Masters list I choose Edit (right click context menu). I answer "Yes" to the dialog and get this error:

Again, message box title is "wxPython: stdout/stderr".
(5) So, thinks me I'll be a little devious. I fire up Enchanted Editor.
(6) In EE I go through the ~File Header records and ensure that the ESPs and ESMs are either deleted or pointing to the correct mod names (due to updates or merging I've done). Some time later I'm back in Wrye Mash
(7) I'm able to Edit the master list, Sync to Load List until I have a save with a nice green checkbox. Time to Repair Refs then, which is when I get the final error message of the trilogy, again the messagebox title is "wxPython: stdout/stderr":

Note that uberLandscape.esp is one of my aforementioned merged mods.

I have the latest versions of Python and wxPython I could find at URLs listed. I've also edited the shortcut to pint to my non-standard MW install (i.e. E: drive).

I want to go back to prior to the Save I cleaned out with Enchanted Editor (yes, that cleaning did get rid of a lot of cruft but it's reset baddies I've killed, wiped out all the areas I've revealed on the local map and also caused some problems with an Imperial Legion quest - the Ice Blade of the Monarch one). The possibilities of Mash are exciting but the errors are just frustating.

Because of the above, any assistance will be gratefully received.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the detailed debug messages!

I'm not sure about the first two error dumps. The next version of the code will be more robust towards things happening outside of Mash (e.g., mod files being moved and/or renamed). But I'm not sure that the fix will help this particular bug.

I believe that the third dump is due to bad refs in one of the master files for the save file. The next version will give more useful error messsages and abort the repair process gracefully.

I've already done the two features described above. I've also recoded so that you can repair refs on esm/esp files (which seems to be a problem with merged files -- Grizz reports a similar problem with Balmora Expanded). I'm still testing this feature.

I should have a new release out in 1-6 hours.

And thanks for a swift response!

Good to hear the info was of use and that youre working on (potential) cures. I'll get the next version tomorrow evening (it's almost midnight here and I'm at work tomorrow :( ). As I said in my earlier post I hope you're able to finalise this - it'll be wonderful to go back to my old save but with doubling minimised.

Luck!

New Release 0.29 As always, get it at Wrye Morrowind.

Major bug fix on Refs Repair for exterior cells. If you saw Mash wanting to delete tons of stuff in mods, this is likely why. You should revert and redo your changes if this was the case. (Grizz, this answers the problems on Balmora Expansion. Once I got this fix in place BE checked out clean -- no repairs needed. So, thanks for the esp!) I suspect that some of Dragon32s problems were related to this too.

You can now Repair Refs on Mods! :celebration: Grizz has tested this feature a little and so have I (note comment on the very sizable BE above), but it has not been extensively tested. (Partially because I figured out and fixed Grizzes problem just an hour ago.)

Greater stability and better error handling. I've added in checks for a few more situations and fixed some problems with recovering from bad files and files deleted/renamed outside of Mash.

Thanks as always to my Beta testers: Grizz, gingercakes, Dragon32 and Beryllium!

Edit: Now at version 0.30 thanks to a quick bug report from Grizz.

This post has been edited by Wrye: Jan 24 2005, 05:27 AM

Congratulations on this program! I must say that this does seem to work. With Wrye Mash, I was finally able to successfully add Dongle's Battlespire mod to my savegame without getting a dreaded missing Tadas Fyr error. It makes managing the load order of plugins so simple...great job!

<Head swells with pride>

Gosh, I've never been a beta tester before.

Downloaded the latest version and I'll let you know how it goes.

<Says to goldfish: Hey, show some respect, I'm a beta tester>

Let's talk about undead refs :shocking: There are some refs, which Morrowind seems bent and determined on messing up. I.e., if Mash fixes these and you then play a game, Morrowind insists on breaking them again. I really don't know the cause of these, though I suspect that it has something to do with two mods changing the same master reference in a cell.

For example, here's my bad ref. It just keeps coming back.

What I can tell you is that mod 20 (Firemoth) has ref with ObjectIndex 6 in this cell as does mod 11 (Wrye Base). I can also tell you that both Firemoth and another of my mods both modify the gates leading to the Census Office dock. (Firemoth deletes it, but my mod keeps it.) So, there's no direct conflict, but perhaps something in the indirect conflict is causing this problem.

I can also tell you that Wrye Mash isn't making this problem worse -- it's just revealing an already existing problem.

New Release 0.31! Some new features but (essentially) no new bug fixes! No new bug reports, so I think that this sucker is out of Beta! :celebration:

Copy to Esm/Esp Convert an esp to an esm and vice versa.

Is Snapshot command will convert versioned mods to snapshots.

Snapshot... will now automatically stamp the new version number into the description field if the description field has a "Version" line in it.

Updating (Editing) Masters is now a bit easier to use. Also, masters can now be deleted by unchecking. (This was broken in the last release (or two?)) Now, after making changes to your load list, go to the save file you want to update, right click on masters column header, select "Update Masters" to update the list, or "Sync to Load List" to sync to your current load list. Then hit save. That's just four quick clicks!

More thorough deletion Mash now deletes backups and temp files while deleting files. But it still leaves snapshots and hidden files.

Sort Mods by File Version Useful if you wan to quickly identify all mods with old file format.

Edit: New Release 0.32 Fixed a problem with writing newlines in mod file descriptions. Though this produced no runtime errors, it messed up the description display in TESCS. This is fixed now. If you happen to have a lot of files affected by this, mention it and I'll post how to fix the problem quickly.

This post has been edited by Wrye: Jan 28 2005, 01:36 AM

<<edited to remove errors related to 0.30>>

Something I've noticed though is... I load this Save game and go for a wander around. There are still some objects which are not associated with any ESMs / ESPs (i.e. no file listed when I do an ORI on them) and were not deleted by Mash. Perhaps the Repair Refs function isn't aggressive enough?

And another thing... After wandering around I quicksaved. I decided to run Mash (Repair Refs) on the quicksave and it found some more bad refs which were deleted / rematched.

Not sure I've said this but thanks for taking the time to develop this utility. It's not caught all doubled objects - see above. But has cleaned a lot of cruft from my saves. Thanks, Wrye.

This post has been edited by Dragon32: Jan 28 2005, 07:47 PM

No, that's actually quite normal. Buy something in a store, then drop it and check it's ORI -- result no file. Same if you pick an object up and then drop it. No file just means that it's "owned" by the save game, not by an esp. This does also happen during doubling (the doubled object will usually have no file in the ORI) -- however, once this happens there's no easy way for Mash to distinguish between a legitimate no-file ORI and a doubled no-file ORI. So, unfortunately, I can't fix the most obvious bad-reference problem. (Though if you use Wrye Mash correctly, you can prevent it from happening in the first place.)


That's the "undead ref" problem. Go up a couple of posts and I talk about it. My only guess so far is that this is mod conflict and/or Morrwind bug.


Thanks! BTW, did you mention (earlier in the thread) that you're running multiple Morrowind installs? There's a quick and dirty way to handle that with Wrye Mash, and a more correct way. I can tell you how to do the cheap and dirty, and if there's enough interest, I can put the correct way on my to do list.

This post has been edited by Wrye: Jan 28 2005, 08:57 PM

<Dragon32 sneaks in and looks furtive>
Ahh, hope what I'm about to say doesn't rain on your parade too much :embarrased:

I've been experimenting on an old save with version 0.32 of Wrye Mash. My previous experience is here -->

(1) So I load up my Wrye Mash and check the mods I want to use in the Mods tab.

(2) Over to the Saves tab and the old save game has a red checkbox. I choose Load Masters for the save game and get the following error:
GUARDS_Tribunal.esm is one of the mods I used in this old save game but have since got rid of. The above error message is effectively the same as what I described in the earlier post (only the line numbers differ). Wrye was sceptical about being able to fix it.

(3) Undaunted I close the error dialog, select the save game and rightclick in the Masters list. I select Update from the context menu. It trundles. And finishes. No error, unlike previously. Cool.

(4) So I have a Masters list full of entries with red checkboxes (for potentially missing masters, like GUARDS_Tribunal.esm). I attempt to right click one of these masters to rename it to the correct .ESP. On rightclick I get the following error:

(5) I forget about renaming masters and just choose Save for the save game. This removes the missing Masters from the save game's Master list. The save game now has a green checkbox. I then run Repair Refs (66 object repaired, 369 objects deleted). Save game still has a green checkbox, I guess because mod tab load list has more mods than are associated with save game.

(6) In an attempt to get a blue checkbox I choose Load Masters and the save game's checkbox turns blue. Turning to the mod tab I see that the load list matches the save game's (i.e. there are a number of unchecked mods). If I reset the load list on the mod tab (so the unchecked mods are selected), then go back to the Saves tab the save games checkbox is still blue although there are some masters with green checkboxes.

OK, so that was with an unaltered old save. What I've done previously to a copy of that old save was to use the Enchanted Editor to go through the ~File Header records and ensure that the ESPs and ESMs are either deleted or pointing to the correct mod names (due to updates or merging I've done). I blow the dust off that modified save and...

(7) Save game has a green checkbox. Choose "Update" - no problem. "Sync to load list" - no problem. Save the save game, it now has a blue checkbox

(8) Choose repair refs. (This failed last time). It completes and reports: 1413 objects repaired and 1250 objects deleted.

Conclusion:
Still a couple of errors, one that Wrye was originally unsure of -section (2)- and a new one -section (4)- which, previously I didn't get far enough to see.
Some bugs splattered though! Previously Edit (now Update) caused an error and Repair Refs on my manually edited save game caused another one, these have been well and truly squashed!

non-bug report bit

• Thanks for the explanation on objects "owned" by the save game. Looks like I'll have to be using EE or Disable|Set Delete on this save game for a little while.
  
• Undead refs, yes read the post but I didn't put two and two together - Doh!
  
  QUOTE(Wrye @ Posted Jan 28 2005, 11:57 PM)
  BTW, did you mention (earlier in the thread) that you're running multiple Morrowind installs?
• No, not me - but some info on this would be useful as it's something I've been thinking of doing - a Morrowind install directory of 3.5GB needs a clear out methinks

Okay, that doesn't look too bad. Mostly interface problems, with one major bug which you can easily fix yourself (by changing "menu" to "event" in one file.) (Though I'll do a re-release soon, of course.)


Yeah, you can't load masters that don't exist! Probably best thing for me to do is to load all masters that do exist and popup a warning to users that some masters don't exist and thus aren't loaded. That's pretty easy.


I think that I introduced that bug recently. That should be "event" instead of "menu" on line 799. I.e.:
List.DoItemMenu(self,event)
I'll do a release soon, but if you'd like to get those files working, you can easily make that change yourself. (Just need a text editor that understands unix newlines.)

Also, I think that you can still directly edit the label (I think that it's a click... wait a split sec then click again), but the right click gives you a file open dialog which may be easier to use.


Hmm... If (in the saves list) you check on another save, and then click back on the original save, I think that you'll find that it does the right thing. So, I just need to update the interface a little sooner after a change to the load list.


Okay, here's the cheap solution. Create a two or more duplicates of mash.py (one duplicte for each morrowind install). You'll also want to copy the "Wrye Mash" shortcuts so that each new shorcut points to one of the new mash.py's. (E.g., shortcut "Wrye Mash 2" points to "mash2.py".) Then in the duplicate mash.py lines, change these two lines:

to this:

Replace the path with the appropriate path, of course. It should be the path of the directory that contains "Morrowind.ini".

Thanks again for the bug report!

New Release: 0.33: Minor Bugfixes Fixes a couple of minor problems dealing with missing masters. Also, Mash now recognizes version numbers in descriptions with a + appended. (E.g., "Verion 4.1.3+") Use this to note ongoing changes to a file.

This fixes (2) and (4) above, but not (6), which is just an interface twitch. (Code starts getting a little meshed together there, so I want to avoid doing a quick small fix that breaks something larger.)

Is Snapshot is now Deprecated I'll be disabling this in the next release of Wrye Mash, but for now, I'd suggest that you not use it. "Snapshot" however is fine though.

Why? Well... Question: Should mod names include their version numbers? Originally, I thought, "No" and Is Snapshot supports that. But now, I'm thinking "Yes" because it will help with ObjectIndex remapping (when I get time/motivation to do it), and for a couple of other reasons as well (e.g., it makes it easier for different save games to use different versions of a mod).

Quick, cheap and dirty method and the correct way would both be much appreciated. :thumbsup:

The cheap and dirty method is at the bottom of this post, and I'll put the correct way on my todo list.